Thanks to the Duggar diddling, we decided to dedicate this episode to the subject of incest.
Professor Stephen Fulminates
There is a bit of anger in this one. The Prof fulminates on incest and christianity. The bible is inconsistent on the subject, and christian apologists end up invoking moral relativism. Intellectual incest amongst crazy American christians leads to actual incest and other terrible behavior.
Lets Talk About Incest
Rachel and Professor Stephen discuss the science, morality, and christian theology of incest and inbreeding. And this leads to a discussion about the crazy racists shit that some fundamentalists spew.
Voicemails, Emails, and Facebook Messages
Thank you all so much for your messages. They mean the world to us. Except for that one. You know who you are.
Another Episode of The Skeptic
Doctor Woo is at it again. This time he is scamming the good people of Catfish Creek Trailer Park. Brought to you by Holy Hoodeewhos!
Rachel Gets Ready to Thow Down Over Dinosaur Soft Tissue
Iron can work as a preservative, so STFU. Rachel answers back to ridiculous creationist comments.
Crazy Preacher Calls In to Call us Out Again
Duncan Waters tries to school us on some bible science, but his grandson fucks it up again.
Jay Joins In
Jason Comeau (Pastor Jay) joins us to talk about incest in the bible, porn, role-play, morality, and human sexuality in general.
Jason schools us atheists on biblical marriage. How is a good bible-believer to get rid of a hated wife? Don’t bother getting married anyway, because Jesus is coming back.
Jason and Professor Stephen go through some common logical fallacies and talk about how they have seen them used (also incest jokes).
Pastor Jonathan Calls In
And stutters a lot.
The Catfish Creek Community Report
Pastor Roy is away on a mission, but the report continues.
The Snake Oil Science Woo Woo Segment – Oscillococcinum
Rachel is amazed by the ridiculousness when Professor Stephen expounds on the ludicrous history and preparation of this expensive, useless nostrum.
~ Sorry for the audio fuzz on Professor Stephen’s end…and all the kinks! This is our first trial run taking over after Cash passed the torch to Professor Stephen and Rachel to take care of some real life shit! But he will be back…kinks will be worked out asap and new equipment is being bought! ~
We talk about all kinds of things in this one.
Professor Stephen Does his first Fulmination on liberal christians.
Rachel Nanon Brown informs us about how conservatives and liberal use their brains differently.
A crazy preacher leaves us a voice message.
The Heretic Woman from Beyond the Trailer Park and Bill from Bar Room Atheist join us for a chat about religion, politics and snake-oil.
Then we are joined by Rachel’s friend Andrew to talk about real and fake quantum physics.
And, lastly we and J.M. Schomburg discuss morality.
We now have a live feed channel. Check it out here. You can pick and choose from a myriad of download possibilities including the ALL NEW ATHEISTS ON AIR APP!
ReAsonCon Videos Coming Soon
The Fuck You Rant
Last night, millions of people had sex. Some had sex on desks, in pools, in elevators, in the car, on a roof and even in beds. But that’s not the problem. Some had sex doggie style, some had sex standing up, some had sex in the butt, some had oral sex, some had sex in yoga positions and some had sex upside down. I know, it’s horrid right, but it gets worse…
Some had sex with an older man, some with a younger woman, some with a stranger, some with a prostitute and even some… with someone of the same gender. Yes! There I said it! Some people, possibly millions had sex last night with someone of the same gender. Man ON man, woman on woman and even homosexual orgies.
Oh the disgust! Tossing and turning I couldn’t sleep. How was I to stop my mind from thinking of all the horrible ways people were having sex? How was I to go to work, How could I think of anything else. It must stop! We can’t have it! It’s amazing that societies function at all, what with all the evil sexing going on.
I mean really, the fact that 20,000 children will die today, that thousands will be raped and abused, that there are thousands homeless, that there are those sick and dying from preventable disease – None, holds a candle to this catastrophe befalling our nation. Gay sex is rampant and it must be stopped.
We’ve looked through our bible and found what the lord hates and out of those 613 things, the one that matters most, the one that is so important it wasn’t put in the holy 10 commandments, the one that is more of an abomination than any other of the abominations is gay sex.
Of course this requires a bit of an imagination, but we all know, that gay sex has to be the worst thing ever. We considered the thou shalt not kill thing but even God killed millions, we considered the thou shall not wear clothes of different fabrics, plant crops side by side, pick up sticks or work on the sabbath but although commands by God, we feel he understands that too many of us do those things and if we abided by his edicts, we would have to kill every Christian living. So we’ve selected homosexuality, because it effects us to our core.
Homosexuality and it’s sinful sex is the source for all kinds of problems… It causes, well it endorses, ummmm it creates bad stuff. You know like, really really bad stuff. Like it effects society in ways I can’t even… Well we just know it’s bad because we are sheep, we practice the mindless, useless arts of the ignorant. In that we’ve been told by really really important Christian leaders that it’s really really bad and wrong and so here we stand.
You can call us bigots but Jesus will straighten you out later. We may suffer here, but God knows our rewards are in heaven. You know that place that god has made for us Christians, that place we learned of in the bible, the same bible that endorses slavery, genocide, infanticide, homocide, rape, torture and human sacrifices. Of course we know some of it can’t be right and we don’t abide, but we know, oh we know for a fact the bits about heaven are very true. For the same reasons we know that homosexuality is bad, we know heaven is so so true.
And then there was more…
Romans 3:23 reads: For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. This may be exactly why God can’t be found and remains so absent.
As a Christian, I was proud to call myself a sinner. It was some sort of narcissistic, self loathing attention whoring thing that only us true Christians could claim as something positive.
I could comfort one who’d made a mistake just by saying, We are all sinners, we all fall short. Either way, you’ll be a sinner to someone.
Just stick some bacon in your mouth and you’re a goddamned sinner to about 2 billion people. Hell fire, due to original sin, being born is enough to many Christians to be deemed a sinner for life.
From showing the bottoms of your feet, turning a switch on Sundays, eating leavened bread, showing your face, being seen without a male family member, shaving your beard, driving a car, masturbating, drinking coffee, swimming on Sundays, gathering sticks, not attending church, not paying tithes and thousands of others, to someone you’ll always be a sinner.
So what’s the fucking value in this? It appears sin is some arbitrary edicts damned by some self appointed holy one who talked to the invisible while roaming the desert and raping sheep.
As a Christian waking up was a challenge, not only could I not partake in the caffeinated wake me up beverages, I would fear what thoughts roamed my mind at night. Did I have a sexual thought, would those thoughts lead to more conscious thoughts during the day and give cause for me to repent again on Sunday.
Under threat of eternal damnation I would hesitantly approach each day. Could I avoid thinking hateful thoughts when the car beside me attempts a you turn in front of me? When my co workers tell a dirty joke, will I be able to walk away? When the morons at McDonalds short me a burger and omit the straw from by bag will I remain forgiving, when Amber bends over at the file cabinet will I turn my head to avoid looking at her ass, will instead my thoughts be controlled by Satan and I allow fantasies of her lying in my bed?
When the little league team offers no decaffeinated drinks will I be able to resist and wait till I’m home to drink god endorsed sodas? When Rob tells me of his weekend escapades, will I share the gospel with him or will I be like the heathens and revel in his conquests.
Really, is it possible to go through one day without sinning? According to the doctrines of which I subscribed, the answer is a painfully – NO.
Some may avoid caffeine, some may avoid sexual thoughts, some may avoid masturbation and others may avoid anger but no one will avoid them all. It’s as if the writers wanted the net cast – to be large enough to insure not one single escapee. They wanted everyone to feel guilty and everyone to fill remorse.
How else could they insure your continued and repeated returns for forgiveness, how else could they encourage your tithes?
The church leaders, those responsible for maintaining the coffers filled each Sunday must cast the largest nets.
Their nets included anything from the mundane consumption of caffeine to the crimes of your mind. They then could deem everyone a sinner and provide the forgiveness.
It’d be like finding out that the company offering the water purification units was up stream polluting the river with poison, thus contaminating your only water supply. This is religion. With the exception that water poisoning is real and sin is not. They poison society with ideas of sin, thus creating a system of social policing so that each person is being watched and judged by his peers. They even create edicts against judging others so as to insure that every living, breathing human is guilty of sin. And for those slick enough to avoid the prying eyes of their fellowman, they preach that God is everywhere and you can not escape his eyewitness.
You are doomed and damned from the beginning. In our society, the harmless act of lust, the viewing of the nudity, self stimulation, the profane words and the private consensual sex of same sexed people is an abomination. It’s all sin and religion is hell bent on making you feel guilty about it.
Last week I was in Hickory NC for the Natl. Day of Reason. Gene Elliot the president of hickory humanists organized this fantastic event. A preacher was standing nearby with a big button that read, NO Porn! So that’s your goddamn message? Save the world, end all of the trials and tribulations faced on this earth, if only we could stop all of you from looking at nude pictures and videos.
He honestly viewed pornography and your viewing of it – a deadly sin, one that would be punished with eternal fire and torture. I asked what the harm with porn is and he immediately told me I wouldn’t understand because I’m an atheist. I prodded him to elaborate as to the harm, as in – what demonstrable harm can you show due to porn?
God doesn’t want us naked, god wants us to be pure.
Nowhere in the Bible does god speak on porn.
In Matthew Christ says that if we lust we have committed adultery and when you look at porn you are lusting.
Ok, so you’ve showed me where it could be implied in the bible, but what is the actual harm?
He says, You’re disobeying God.
Ok, again, that’s the bible. Can you show me how porn does harm? The bible also says that if I hit you – you are to turn the other cheek. What if I hit your wife, would you demand that she follow this command from the new testament? We don’t follow these commands because we know they are ignorant and condone abuse. I want to know how pornography harms society?
He again ignored it and said that I wouldn’t understand.
This wasn’t about how to help someone in need, this is about making himself feel better while demonizing something he has been convinced is bad.
He had a sign, it read: Are you a real or fake atheist?
I’m a real one, I don’t believe in God. “but do you love your family, do you think murder is wrong, do you think beastiality is wrong?” Why yes, I do. Well then you are a fake atheist.
His goal was to create a strawman and then tear it down, which he did, I mean he kicks some shit out of the ignorantly concocted fictitious demon strawman. Problem was, there were no atheists there who could relate, none of us were – murder and rape are great type atheists and so his message fell mostly on deaf ears.
His equally uneducated crew of Christards marched around us in groups of two, they held their phones close to their ears to avoid hearing any of our reasoned words. Around and around they went for over an hour, once in a while stopping to lift their hands to the heavens.
Before we got started, one preacher said he had just returned from Africa on a mission where people were dying to hear the word of god and be saved and was extremely disappointed to be coming home to find the atheists were celebrating reason.
I called out to him after he was done, stating that those people in africa weren’t dying to hear from a preacher or a god, they were dying, literally dying from lack of food. He frowned and walked off with his atheists are going to hell sign.
Yet religion does no harm? It makes innocent children feel unworthy, it threatens all with eternal fires and absence of family, it makes the trivial – of value in the eyes of many.
So again, I say ————————— Fuck Religion and Fuck Your Sin
If sin existed it would be the sin of building worship halls and pastor palaces while millions starve, if sin existed it would be a sin to delude the masses using fear and fright to abscond with their monies, if sin existed, it would be sinful to encourage prayer instead of seeking real help. These would be sins. Instead to we, the humanists – they are the most evil and vile and are crimes against humanity.
I missed ya’ll last week. I know you already recapped ReAsonCon but I just had to tell everyone that came, supported us and all the speakers, thank you! It was a freak’n blast and I do believe the best time I’ve ever had at a conference.
Tracie Harris was amazing. She has this beautiful smile that disguises a bit of sarcasm as she shared the art of analogies. Tracie has an uncanny ability to take some convoluted indoctrinated and strongly held belief and present it in analogy form so that the recipient can relate easily. What a huge benefit to those of us who enjoy a little debate once in a while. Expect to see more of her in the movements power players.
Richard Carrier flew in from California and spent 3 hours annihilating the fiction that is the Christ myth. He took questions from attendees and even a group of Christians came in like tshirts and were able to ask their questions too. Richard has a book called “Why I Am Not A Christian” that is a must read and I would encourage everyone to grab a copy. He has a newer book out as well, but the short succinct and easily read Why I am Not a christian is easy on my brain.
Ryan Bell, the ex-Pastor who has a wonderful blog account of his year without God spoke and shared his process, his experiences thus far and where he’s headed. His talk had a soft reverence to it that endeared him to the listeners. It was a pleasure having him among us Heathens.
My beautiful daughter Phoebe spoke about her early years with her first family and the myriad of religions she experienced. Obviously I’m biased but Phoebe did an amazing job. She was inspired by the crowd and all the wonderful comments afterwards.
We will have the videos from the conference online soon at Atheists On Air’s youtube page.
One of my favorite parts of Reasoncon was the late saturday night thru early sunday morning impromptu podcast recording by Bobby C and the No Religion Required podcast. The Bar Room Atheists, Richard Carrier, Tracie Harris, Ryan Bell and the entire crew of the Scathing Atheist sat around with a lively but drunken audience for over 3 hours. You can hear this amazing podcast in the 3 part series at No Religion Required.com But be warned, after hearing my friendlier, respectable show, you may be offended when entering.
049 – Homosexuality Is Bad Because… Get pissed with Cash. The rant comes first. Bonus: What the fuck is this “sin” shit?
I told you not to wipe your ass. I told you not to pick your nose. Those are sins before the eyes of the Lord. And if you had been raised to think that, you’d probably experience guilt each time you did it.
God, via the Holy Ghost man would lay it upon your heart that it was wrong and you’d feel like shit. It’s how that sin thing works. In some countries, it is a sin to show the bottoms of your feet, it’s a sin to be female and without a father or brother to accompany you to the store, it’s even a sin to drive if you have a vagina.
You’ll hear my nine cents worth in the beginning as I rant about what sin is. I am often argued that I became Atheist because I wanted to sin. Makes as much sense as going to school for 9 years and obtain my Doctorate in Medicine so I can get a fancy lab coat.
You’re an atheist because you want to sin and are attempting to escape the guilt. But what sin are you wanting to commit? Masturbation? You want to watch porn? You want to drink and cuss?
So really what other sin as you call it could I possibly justify if I didn’t have an invisible voyeur on high watching my every move?
You can’t possibly list real crimes, you know murder, rape, thievery, arson etc… These are prohibited now by our governments, federal and local. And regardless some criminal codes to deter the would-be criminals, per capita – the religious hold the longstanding record of the most incarcerations and convictions for these acts.
It appears that the secularists and the immoral atheists make up less than 1 percent of the prison populations. The moral sky daddy is in no way curbing or deterring the acts of crimes by the faithfully devout.
So where’s the value in believing?
Now let me take you back to the other sins as you refer, masturbation, pornography, drinking and cussing. What makes these a sin? Cussing, sure – depending on what spot of the ground I stand, whether it be the UK or the US, those words may not be considered derogatory or curse words at all. I’ve addressed this previously and your holy books make no statement either way.
So all we have are some words that some religious nutters have deemed curse words. They are nothing more than sounds produced that at sometime, somewhere a zealous nutter declared offensive.
A christian in the UK or in Australia wouldn’t deem our curse words as vile or contemptible and vice versa, their slang like “Donga” or “Moooo” would have no effects here and wouldn’t even rattle the blue hairs down at the local Jesus Saves Obama is Satan – Pentecostal Full Gospel Holy Roller Church of the Mesiah.
So that leaves us with masturbation and pornography. Masturbation is the act of stimulating your own genitals, usually to the point of orgasm. This process harms no one and in fact has the opposite effects. It’s been studied and the science is very clear, Masturbation lowers our blood pressure and our bodies produce endorphins that ease stress and cause us to relax.
Females can masturbate during their periods to ease pain by increasing the blood flow to the pelvic region. It’s also been shown to decrease headaches and athritis pain.
Masturbation helps flush the cervix of old bacteria and can help prevent UTI’s
Masturbation to orgasm releases a hormone called cortisol which can strengthen your immune system as well.
So what are the negative side affects of masturbation? None! Even the Bible is painfully absent any dictates on this sinful act.
So where does it come from? Where did the Religious Fucknuts come up with this prohibition against pleasuring ones self?
In Genesis Ch 38, Onan, who is Judah’s son is told by the Lord to go have sex with his brother’s wife so that she could bear children. He does but each time he pulls out and spills his seed on the floor. This pissed God right on off and so god kills Onan. (There ya have it, God doesn’t like you to ejaculate onto the floor) It’s much better to put your dick and semen into your brother’s wife.
From only two verses, which are very clear that God was only pissed off about Onan not obeying him, but the Christards have extracted the: Don’t fucking masturbate Goddammit.
It’s obvious God doesn’t give two shits whether you masturbate or not, because since the story of Onan, he’s not struck down one person for the act. Of course to be fair, I’m only looking at the past 6000 years, so there could have been an incident that wasn’t recorded.
God however does give two more commands regarding nighttime emissions.
The first: Leviticus 15:16 – If a man has an emission of semen he shall bathe his whole body in water and will remain unclean until the evening
and then in Deut 23:10 If there be among you any man, that is not clean by reason of uncleanness that chanceth him by night, then shall he go abroad out of the camp, he shall not come within the camp: 11But it shall be, when evening cometh on, he shall wash himself with water: and when the sun is down, he shall come into the camp again.
Not one fucking word in the entire Bible about Masturbation! Some Religitards will pull out Galatians 5:16 that says that you must walk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Does that mean eating, or just eating while walking or does it involve walking but having an itch on your neck but you must stop to scratch it first? Fleshly desires, well wouldn’t that encompass putting on makeup, getting your nails and hair did and wearing your best? These all are desires of the flesh.
If this is the argument, it’s weak, fuck – it’s literally non existent. God doesn’t say anything about masturbation.
It’s all about control. It’s control over people by placing demands and making sins out of natural things in order to promote fear and unworthiness.
over at Bible.org there is an article explaining the problems with masturbation…
1. Psychic effects. Masturbation has a tendency to isolate its captives psychologically and socially. In masturbation, the person is focused on self-alone even though he or she usually is fantasizing about someone else at the same time. (picking your nose)
2. Emotional deprivation. It is impossible for the one who is practicing this habit to experience the full extent of sex emotions. Therefore, in short-circuiting the emotions one can easily be removed from the world of reality. Reality being what, one man one woman? Wouldn’t that remove you from the world of a threesome reality?
3. Damaged sensibility. The habit of masturbation has a tendency in numbing the mechanism of the sexual organs if practiced excessively. This lessens the sensibility and thus detracts from normal sexual relations of married life. (Are we talking calluses here? Penis or Bean calluses from excessive masturbation? Has they never heard of lube. KY Jelly, it’s not just for biscuits. What exactly is the amount of masturbation one can do without causing desensitizing? Hold on a God Damned minute. Isn’t it you religious fucknuts who started this genital mutilation deal and even upon the evidence that proves it desensitizes the genitals – still systematically defend the procedure?
4. Self-gratification. The emotional background of self-gratification is not the least bit healthy and usually militates against the home, wife and family because it is focused only on self. ( Can the same be said for eating, smoking, swimming or fishing)
5. Control of the mind. Along with the act of masturbation comes the fantasy of the mind. When practiced often, a pattern or cycle seems to become established within the individual’s mind. Thus, perversion has a tendency to control the mind and this in turn initiates the act. The real danger lies in the guilt that increases as the individual dwells in this world of fantasy. (ah, so the real danger is the guilt from having the fantasies – Wasn’t it you fucktarded scum that made fantasy into some sort of sin in the first place? So you are directly responsible for the guilt of billions of people – all for doing something that is completely normal and natural.
Pornography: The bible does have some things to say about porn, but only if you have a very open mind and consider nakedness porn. God paints with a broad brush here. He uses the words or what we now translate to mean: Sexual Immorality. Of course keep in mind, according to God, it’s not – let me repeat, it’s Not immoral to rape a girl as long as you pay her father some money.
It was not immoral to take on some sex slaves from neighboring villages and in fact God commanded it.
But Jesus changed all that right…Hell fire, according to Jesus in Matthew 5:28, it is a crime, a sex crime to look upon a woman with lust.
See the problem is that God didn’t realize we’d create cameras and so when the camera was invented, the miracles stopped and the porn started. The bible uses terms like evil ways and wickedness, but nowhere does it state that pornography, nor masturbation is bad, evil or wicked.
These are all the calculated contrivances of the holy men who use their status to make you feel worthless and unworthy. How can they sale you a cure if the sickness isn’t among you. That’s right, create the sickness.
As I ranted with my ice cream analogy in the past, these fuck nuts needed something as common as breathing and as natural as air. But it needed to be something that you could possibly live without but had an innate propensity towards.
Just as the preachers in the 60’s said Rock Music was of the devil these new ideas are placed solely for the purpose of making you feel like less of a person.
See there! What now is sin and why do I need an invisible sky daddy to keep me from it? What harm comes from your definition of sin? Sin is but a word used to control the weakest of minds. It’s a tool used by the churches and it’s leaders to oppress and control.
So to you Mr. Christian Fucktard – consider now that your God gave a new edict against beef. Beef and it’s consumption is now a sin, it’s evil and even your thought of eating a grilled steak shall be the same as your eating it.
Much like the Hindus and the Jains, Beef is forbidden. McDonalds and Burger King are but the ploys of Satan. Lucifer himself has placed these into our world and is using their slick marketing, their delicious smells and soft buns to trick you. It’s a slippery slope which can start with the harmless beef bullion flavored soup and eventually you’ll be wanting to have sex with rabid squirrels.
Westboro baptist will be picketing burger chains nationwide and you my dear son can follow the ways of the world or you can follow Jesus Christ. Not one word about Christ eating beef so it must be wrong.
Teach a child this growing up, solidify his beliefs with adults who reiterate the importance of avoiding beef in his schooling and you’ll end up with a nation who believes beef is a sin.
Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman and their ilk will push for Nationwide bans on this devilish meat.
This may sound funny and a tad ridiculous but it’s no different than the edicts against masturbation, pornography, drinking or cursing. Yes, too much of about anything can cause problems, but we aren’t talking levels of consumption, we are talking about any consumption at all. You could rub your bean so much it becomes raw and sore, you could drink too much and die, you could look at porn so much you are late for work, but the same would apply to the Bible.
None of these things practiced in moderation or in safe manners will cause harm or risk harm to others. Of course there are a few exceptions with alcohol but again, Christianity is split on the consumption and both have nothing from the bible in which to validate their position.
The bottom line is I’m a fucking atheist, I’m an atheist because I don’t find nor have been offered any demonstrable evidence for your god or any other. I escaped, however late the indoctrination I received as a child and the social acceptance of a Christian God as an adult. I am free!
I didn’t get mad at God, I didn’t want to weasel my way out of being responsible for my sins and I didn’t want to follow this new intellectually superior crowd of secular humanists. I’m an atheist because I required evidence and I put a higher value on my brain and it’s capabilities than to relinquish all to what should be a sin – Faith.
I chose reason over faith, I chose to question instead of blindly follow and I chose humanities morals over Gods. I could no longer stand the cognitive dissonance of believing that God was all loving yet condoned slavery and wouldn’t save a child from abuse.
My atheism is the default position. It’s not statement of fact, it’s not a denouncement of God, it’s a disbelief due to the sheer absence of evidence otherwise.
If it makes you feel better to say that I just wanted to sin, if my condoning of marriage equality and safe sex practiced freely among consenting adults outside the bounds of your holy matrimony are what you consider sins and your way to rationalize my disbelief, then I must say go for it.
How painfully fragile your faith must be. How horribly weak is the foundation of your beliefs that you must build ad hominem attacks in order to survive my resistance to your faith.
If hell be real, then sin would not be strong enough bait for this devil you fear. Among your fellow Christian brothers and sisters is the highest rates of divorce, child abuse, rape, adultery and gay porn. If hell be real, then how come your friends resist not?
Equally your heaven although descriptively not appealing to me, is your reward and yet not strong enough to keep the sheep inline. You have both, the reward and the punishment to keep you on the straight and narrow and yet statistically your group of Bigoted, Intolerant Pious Christians fail to abide by your own Goddamned rules.
Claiming that someone else’s personal and unrelated actions are sins and against your religion is like being angry at me for eating a donut because you are on a diet.
So from the bottom of my balls to the tip of my penis, Fuck You. Because your little pee brain can not comprehend why anyone would leave the strict and nonsensical ignorant belief systems you have chosen to adhere – that somehow we must have a demon within or desire to partake in your fake sins, then I pity you. Well, I don’t really pity you, but I think you look like an ignorant asshole who’s IQ rivals the leather on my boots.
I do wish for you to think. And from Thomas Jefferson, yes one of our Bible Pounding, In God We Trust, Christian Forefathers: Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.